So it seems that the Dragon and Bug clause was not as unanimously agreed upon as I had thought. So I welcome further discussion on the matter. Currently we are allowing members of the Dragon Gym to use not only Dragon Types, but also non-Dragon Types from the Dragon Egg Group, with a similar exception made for the Bug Gym and Bug Egg Group.
Make your voice heard. Do you agree/disagree? Why? Any other options to explore?
14 comments:
After talking about it: I agree that the dragon gym should have access to the other pokemon in its egg group, as long as we're talking about the dragon group and not the monster group (where garchomp is also a member) ((I guess another issue is whether garchomp should be allowed in a dragon gym))
As far as bugs go, I think there is enough diversity and bugs with good stats that there is no need to have pokemon who aren't part bug in the gym.
I agree that Dragon should be allowed to use pokemon from the Dragon Egg Group, without those options, there are only exactly six pokemon(fully evolved) that could be used, allowing the Dragon Gym no options.
Bug may not have the largest selection for strong pokemon, but it is sufficient enough that I'd have to also say they should stick to the bug type only.
I think it should apply to both and, with respect to the bugs, we're only talking about three pokemon (Drapion, Gligar, and Flygon) as opposed to the large amount of non-dragons encompassed by the Dragon egg group. Drapion evolves from a bug, while the other two have very distinct bug qualities. Also, while we're talking about the variety in the bugs, remember that half the type is taken up by a lot useless ones like Beedrill and Dustox.
Good point Mike, my fault. I didn't realize the bug egg group consisted of so few others. And all three of those are very bug like anyway. So yeah, I suppose I'll have to change my opinion to include the bug egg group.
Bug types are one of the few groups that have their own breeding set, but I don't think that's a sufficient reason to allow them to incorporate other types. Maybe I'm not getting the vision of the gyms, but I thought the point was to provide the most challenging experience within a single type.
There are well more than 6 really good bug types in the game. I mean the bug type definitely has weaknesses, but that's true of all types. Just like anything else, majority rules, but I really do not understand how sticking to bug types unduly handicaps that gym and until someone can explain that to me, my opinion remains the same.
I agree with Ace. Allowing for the dragon egg group is fine because of the limited amount fo dragon type pokemon.
There are however numerous amount of bug types and, although the majority if not all of the bugs fall in the UU/NU categor, I don't think egg group pokemon should be allowed for that gym.
If an exception should be made,it would be for Drapion only, since it starts out as a bug type.
Just to toss in a note on the Garchomp issue. Thus far we have not been using the metagame tiers to restrict teams. The Dark team and Ground team have been using Tyranitar and Garchomp (respectively) and I personally don't feel it has unbalanced things from what I've seen.
Well first off I've tried to avoid using Garchomp lately to prevent any claims that my team has a ringer. Besides, he doesn't fit too well with my Trick Room stuff.
And with respect to the gyms, yes the point behind the gyms is to provide a challenge, but at the same the game itself acknowledges that there are certain Pokemon that fit a gym's them due to their intrinsic nature, a la Aaron's Bug team in DPPt. I think we have to go all or none with this egg group thing; while Dragons may be very limited we are talking about a group that boasts some of the largest base stat totals and move pools in the game.
So thus far it seems everyone that has posted agrees that the Dragon Gym should be allowed to use pokemon from the Dragon Egg Group. We have not reached a consensus on the Bug Gym, but we have yet to hear from Ranger Steve, PureNell, The Arsonist, and myself (as far as Gym Leaders at least). Also the question of whether metagame tiers should play a factor in what is allowed in gyms, though that should probably discussed elsewhere, as a separate issue.
As far as the Bug Gym discussion goes, I've been pretty quiet since I'm actually fine either way. I don't mind giving them the 3 extra pokemon from the Bug Egg Group, but I would also like to see how good a Bug team could get without any crutches at all. Count me as impartial.
I pretty much agree with Arsonist on this one. I'm not a real fan of the tier breakdown and have always been pretty much on the side of "only things not allowed are legendaries and event pokemon." For the most part, you can pretty much tell who sucks and who doesn't suck all on your own and if it comes a time where we want to have "junior gym battles" then we can do that. But if thats not the case, people are going to pick the best of the best based on their own preferences.
As far as the bug egg debacle is concerned, I am noticing more formidable Pokemon in that tier than I had originally thought. However, I am still in the side of leaving those other bugs open. To this day, I hate that they drop the Bug typing from Drapion and Flygon.
-Dragging This On-
I'm all for opening up the Dragon gym to the Dragon Egg group.
-Stop Buggin'-
The Bug Gym opening to the Bug Egg group may not be necessary but I can go either way on that. It's basically just adding Flygon, Drapion, and Gliscor. I guess I would still want access to a pokemon that started off in my gym and lost it's type due to evolution. It would be foolish to force someone NOT to evolve. I just don't want to see Jolteon and Glaceon on the Normal Gym team.
-Who Can Play-
I've never been a big time Poke-Battle Sim person, so I don't judge by tiers or use the word uber. I do think we should model out rules of acceptance after the JAA or any other Game Freak/Nintendo rule set. There isn't a pokemon in the game who doesn't have a viable counter. I know some things break down in 1v1. That may be the only spot where we would have to adjust allowances.
Sorry I haven't been on guys. New job, few waking hours at home, you know.
As for the egg group discussion, I'm down with letting both dragon and bug gyms use all from their respective egg types as well. I figure that if it raises any complaints later on from opposing teams thinking that these other types are being abused in some way, we can address it then. Besides what we all already know to be considered cheap or hax, I don't see this as being very likely. I don't consider it a crutch to have others of the same egg group included, and I would be interested to see how an all bug/dragon team performs as opposed to one incorporating similar pokemon not of the same type.
I actually could go either way on the bug gym. As far as the dragon gym goes, I'm for including the egg group.
I have to admit, though, I feel that the three that get added to bug would also add a bit more unpredictability to the gym's line-up. The bug type is hindered by quite a few absolutely useless Pokemon and everything.
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